STEven sheil interview
Darkside Newz was fortunate enough to catch up with Stevin Sheil: the British writer and director of cult horror film 'Dead Mine' as well as this week's great film you have probably never seen before 'Mum and Dad'. Check out what he had to say:
What was it that inspired you to pursue a career in the film industry?
I never started out with the intention of pursuing a career in film – when I was younger I wanted to be a writer. When I first moved to Nottingham from London, I took a lot of part-time temp jobs and concentrated on writing fiction. I was also living with and hanging out with a lot of people who were doing art courses, and some of them became involved with the local filmmaking scene. I helped out on a couple of short films, enjoyed it and started writing scripts. Then I got onto a course called Headstart which was a one-year intensive course in film and video production and that cemented the idea that I could make my own films. There was a very vibrant DIY filmmaking scene in the East Midlands at that time, with a lot of people making stuff on digital video, and we all worked on each other’s films. It was a great grounding in all aspects of production – and it was all down to the accessibility of the equipment.
So far most of your work has been within the horror genre what is it about 'horror' that appeals to you?
I enjoy making horror because it’s a genre that – like comedy – has a real visceral effect on an audience. Also, it’s a genre that asks big questions – why do people hurt one another? What happens when we die? I like exploring different and extreme worldviews. Also, horror films are really enjoyable to make – you have to create a world so there’s good opportunities for design, SFX, costume and make-up and it’s a good chance for actors to explore some very unusual mindsets.
Do you have any plans to write any other feature films that are of a different genre?
Yeah, I’ve got other projects that are more sci-fi or straight drama. They’re still exploring the themes I’m interested in, but from different angles. One of my first paid writing jobs was co-writing a script on British wrestling. It was planned as a kind of British ‘Boogie Nights’, but it got stranded in development. It’s a shame, because it’s a world I find really interesting – the mixture of fantasy and reality. Nothing’s real, but everything hurts.
The first film I saw of yours was 'Mum and Dad' which I thought was truly brilliant and very original. It was generally met by positive feedback. The only criticisms I have seen of the film is that it was 'too extreme' In my opinion there is no such thing but what would your response be to the critics that think it went 'too far'?
I’ve watched a lot of horror and ‘M & D’ is nowhere near as extreme as a lot of things – in fact you could probably find as many people who think it didn’t go far enough. I don’t know – it didn’t do me any favours in terms of trying to get another film off the ground – I went to a lot of meetings after the film came out where people would tell me they were repulsed or found it hard to watch, and even if they appreciated what we did on the budget and thought the film was effective, no-one ever said to me ‘We’d like another one like that.’ I went into the film wanting to make a film that would have a really pervasive atmosphere – that would make the audience feel a little bit soiled when they’d finished watching it. Not out of any real malice towards the audience, but that was how I felt watching ‘The Texas Chain Saw Massacre’ and I liked the way that a film could have that effect – creating a world that felt corrupted. TCM is another film that is often cited as being extreme, even thought there’s barely any blood in it really – it’s all down to the atmosphere.
I never started out with the intention of pursuing a career in film – when I was younger I wanted to be a writer. When I first moved to Nottingham from London, I took a lot of part-time temp jobs and concentrated on writing fiction. I was also living with and hanging out with a lot of people who were doing art courses, and some of them became involved with the local filmmaking scene. I helped out on a couple of short films, enjoyed it and started writing scripts. Then I got onto a course called Headstart which was a one-year intensive course in film and video production and that cemented the idea that I could make my own films. There was a very vibrant DIY filmmaking scene in the East Midlands at that time, with a lot of people making stuff on digital video, and we all worked on each other’s films. It was a great grounding in all aspects of production – and it was all down to the accessibility of the equipment.
So far most of your work has been within the horror genre what is it about 'horror' that appeals to you?
I enjoy making horror because it’s a genre that – like comedy – has a real visceral effect on an audience. Also, it’s a genre that asks big questions – why do people hurt one another? What happens when we die? I like exploring different and extreme worldviews. Also, horror films are really enjoyable to make – you have to create a world so there’s good opportunities for design, SFX, costume and make-up and it’s a good chance for actors to explore some very unusual mindsets.
Do you have any plans to write any other feature films that are of a different genre?
Yeah, I’ve got other projects that are more sci-fi or straight drama. They’re still exploring the themes I’m interested in, but from different angles. One of my first paid writing jobs was co-writing a script on British wrestling. It was planned as a kind of British ‘Boogie Nights’, but it got stranded in development. It’s a shame, because it’s a world I find really interesting – the mixture of fantasy and reality. Nothing’s real, but everything hurts.
The first film I saw of yours was 'Mum and Dad' which I thought was truly brilliant and very original. It was generally met by positive feedback. The only criticisms I have seen of the film is that it was 'too extreme' In my opinion there is no such thing but what would your response be to the critics that think it went 'too far'?
I’ve watched a lot of horror and ‘M & D’ is nowhere near as extreme as a lot of things – in fact you could probably find as many people who think it didn’t go far enough. I don’t know – it didn’t do me any favours in terms of trying to get another film off the ground – I went to a lot of meetings after the film came out where people would tell me they were repulsed or found it hard to watch, and even if they appreciated what we did on the budget and thought the film was effective, no-one ever said to me ‘We’d like another one like that.’ I went into the film wanting to make a film that would have a really pervasive atmosphere – that would make the audience feel a little bit soiled when they’d finished watching it. Not out of any real malice towards the audience, but that was how I felt watching ‘The Texas Chain Saw Massacre’ and I liked the way that a film could have that effect – creating a world that felt corrupted. TCM is another film that is often cited as being extreme, even thought there’s barely any blood in it really – it’s all down to the atmosphere.
How do you think British independent cinema differs from hollywood (apart form the budget of course)?
I’m not sure that British independent cinema has a strong sense of itself – we don’t have a massive industry in this country and there are really only a handful of places to get finance from. Independent cinema covers a whole range of films and genres, because we don’t have a real studio system. In terms of horror, I think other countries probably have more of a sense of identity than the UK - I honestly don’t know what would be considered to be an archetypal contemporary British horror film – it’s a very diverse field. I wish that there was more risk-taking – horror is a genre which has so many tropes that it’s easy to get caught up in just looking back and regurgitating what’s gone before, but some of the most interesting horrors I’ve seen in recent years have been much more on the edge of what you might call horror, and have been better for it.
'Dead Mine' was interesting in that it was an Indonesian independent film. Are you a fan of Indonesian cinema and if so do you have any recommendations, asides from ‘Dead Mine’, for our readers who may not be familiar with foreign cinema?
To be honest, I haven’t seen a lot of Indonesian cinema. I was asked to come on board the project by the production company, who I’d met in Singapore a few years ago. Obviously you’ve got Gareth Evans who made ‘The Raid’, and is now finishing off the sequel as well as The Mo Brothers, who made a great film called ‘Macabre’ and have got a new film called ‘Killers’ coming out soon. Gareth Evans and Timo Tjahjanto also collaborated on a section of ‘V/H/S 2” which I haven’t seen yet, but which sounds great. Outside Indonesia, I guess I’d say check out Korean director Boon Jong-Ho, who made a great monster movie called ‘The Host’, and has just made his first English language film called ‘Snowpiercer’.
I’m one of the directors of the Mayhem Film Festival in Nottingham, which runs over Halloween every year and looks to give a snapshot of what’s happening in world horror and cult films. This year we’ve got 17 films from around the world. I guess I’d encourage people to get out there and visit festivals like ours and get an idea of the breadth of horror filmmaking.
How has the rise in online streaming and torrent downloads impacted you in terms of your career in the film industry? Does it directly affect you as a writer or director or is it more the distributors and producers that ultimately pay the price? Are there pros and cons?
It’s something that I’ve been thinking about a lot recently, actually – I just discovered that somebody has uploaded a pirated copy of ‘Dead Mine’ onto the internet. It’s been up since July and has already got over 2 million views. Now, obviously neither myself, nor the producers, nor the various distribution companies are making any money out of this – though the guy who uploaded it probably is, through advertising on the page. So, he’s copying my work without license or permission and making money off it. I’m not daft enough to think that 2 million page views on YouTube amounts to 2 million units of lost revenue – there’s probably a much smaller percentage of people who watched the film all the way through, but it still adds up to a lot of free viewings.
That doesn’t make me feel great – if a film doesn’t make money then it makes it harder for me to get the same budget next time – most films are only financed with the idea that they will make a profit or at least make their money back. I’d much rather people find a legal way to watch the film, because in the long run that means that financiers are more likely to back other films that I make.
At the same time, ‘Dead Mine’ wasn’t really promoted that much. It wasn’t really put forward for many festivals and the DVD and Blu-Ray releases were mostly pretty low-key, at least in Europe. In Asia, it got a cinema release across Indonesia, the Philippines and Singapore as well as a number of TV broadcasts on HBO Asia (who were the main backer of the film), but as far as I understand it, it was in a truncated, cut version. Now it’s online it’s getting an audience – it’s getting seen and maybe that helps somehow in the long run – people at least get to see my work.
I think that the industry is still struggling to find a response to piracy at the moment. What people have got to realize is that once a film is out somewhere in the world, it might as well be out everywhere – the internet is global and someone will upload a torrent somewhere and if people want to find it, they can. I think a lot of people are willing to pay for things if they can find them easily enough, but if they get frustrated waiting – and they know that it’s out there somewhere – then they’ll resort to piracy.
But I do believe that people are aware of the necessity that there is some kind of transaction between creator(s) and audience – most people want artists to continue making work, because they are fans and want to see more work. You only have to look at successful Kickstarter campaigns to see audiences not only paying to view work, but paying for it to get made. The important thing is that audiences have a connection to and an investment (not necessarily financial) in the work of a creator/creators – that’s the key relationship. People like films and if you make it easy for them to buy them, I think for the most part they will.
I’m not sure that British independent cinema has a strong sense of itself – we don’t have a massive industry in this country and there are really only a handful of places to get finance from. Independent cinema covers a whole range of films and genres, because we don’t have a real studio system. In terms of horror, I think other countries probably have more of a sense of identity than the UK - I honestly don’t know what would be considered to be an archetypal contemporary British horror film – it’s a very diverse field. I wish that there was more risk-taking – horror is a genre which has so many tropes that it’s easy to get caught up in just looking back and regurgitating what’s gone before, but some of the most interesting horrors I’ve seen in recent years have been much more on the edge of what you might call horror, and have been better for it.
'Dead Mine' was interesting in that it was an Indonesian independent film. Are you a fan of Indonesian cinema and if so do you have any recommendations, asides from ‘Dead Mine’, for our readers who may not be familiar with foreign cinema?
To be honest, I haven’t seen a lot of Indonesian cinema. I was asked to come on board the project by the production company, who I’d met in Singapore a few years ago. Obviously you’ve got Gareth Evans who made ‘The Raid’, and is now finishing off the sequel as well as The Mo Brothers, who made a great film called ‘Macabre’ and have got a new film called ‘Killers’ coming out soon. Gareth Evans and Timo Tjahjanto also collaborated on a section of ‘V/H/S 2” which I haven’t seen yet, but which sounds great. Outside Indonesia, I guess I’d say check out Korean director Boon Jong-Ho, who made a great monster movie called ‘The Host’, and has just made his first English language film called ‘Snowpiercer’.
I’m one of the directors of the Mayhem Film Festival in Nottingham, which runs over Halloween every year and looks to give a snapshot of what’s happening in world horror and cult films. This year we’ve got 17 films from around the world. I guess I’d encourage people to get out there and visit festivals like ours and get an idea of the breadth of horror filmmaking.
How has the rise in online streaming and torrent downloads impacted you in terms of your career in the film industry? Does it directly affect you as a writer or director or is it more the distributors and producers that ultimately pay the price? Are there pros and cons?
It’s something that I’ve been thinking about a lot recently, actually – I just discovered that somebody has uploaded a pirated copy of ‘Dead Mine’ onto the internet. It’s been up since July and has already got over 2 million views. Now, obviously neither myself, nor the producers, nor the various distribution companies are making any money out of this – though the guy who uploaded it probably is, through advertising on the page. So, he’s copying my work without license or permission and making money off it. I’m not daft enough to think that 2 million page views on YouTube amounts to 2 million units of lost revenue – there’s probably a much smaller percentage of people who watched the film all the way through, but it still adds up to a lot of free viewings.
That doesn’t make me feel great – if a film doesn’t make money then it makes it harder for me to get the same budget next time – most films are only financed with the idea that they will make a profit or at least make their money back. I’d much rather people find a legal way to watch the film, because in the long run that means that financiers are more likely to back other films that I make.
At the same time, ‘Dead Mine’ wasn’t really promoted that much. It wasn’t really put forward for many festivals and the DVD and Blu-Ray releases were mostly pretty low-key, at least in Europe. In Asia, it got a cinema release across Indonesia, the Philippines and Singapore as well as a number of TV broadcasts on HBO Asia (who were the main backer of the film), but as far as I understand it, it was in a truncated, cut version. Now it’s online it’s getting an audience – it’s getting seen and maybe that helps somehow in the long run – people at least get to see my work.
I think that the industry is still struggling to find a response to piracy at the moment. What people have got to realize is that once a film is out somewhere in the world, it might as well be out everywhere – the internet is global and someone will upload a torrent somewhere and if people want to find it, they can. I think a lot of people are willing to pay for things if they can find them easily enough, but if they get frustrated waiting – and they know that it’s out there somewhere – then they’ll resort to piracy.
But I do believe that people are aware of the necessity that there is some kind of transaction between creator(s) and audience – most people want artists to continue making work, because they are fans and want to see more work. You only have to look at successful Kickstarter campaigns to see audiences not only paying to view work, but paying for it to get made. The important thing is that audiences have a connection to and an investment (not necessarily financial) in the work of a creator/creators – that’s the key relationship. People like films and if you make it easy for them to buy them, I think for the most part they will.
You are currently involved in a project entitled 'Gozo' would you be bale to elaborate a little in regards to what the project is about and how you are involved?
‘Gozo’ was a script I wrote for a friend of mine called Leo Scott, who was the editor on ‘Mum & Dad’ and who has since gone on to work with Harmony Korine and Gia Coppola. He wanted to make a film set on Gozo – an island next to Malta, which he knows very well. He asked me to write a script that could be done on a low-budget. I came up with a kind of psychological ghost story involving a young couple battling with guilt, and wrote a couple of drafts. As the project progressed, Leo got a director – Miranda Bowen – on board. She took the project on and did her own draft. Currently the film is still in post-production but hopefully it should be finished before too long. I’m really looking forward to seeing it.
What is you all time favourite horror movie and what is about that film that makes it so good to you?
The Texas Chain-Saw Massacre. It’s like the year zero for modern horror, it’s so influential. I just like the fact that wrongness is in every single frame of the film – I think Tobe Hooper described it as taking place on ‘a cosmically bad day’.
If you could cast any actor in the world, no matter how big, to star in one of your movies who would it be and why?
It’s a cop-out, but it would depend on the part. I’m not sure I’ve got a favourite contemporary actor. If I could have anyone, past or present, I’d take either Robert Mitchum or Cary Grant.
You have also been involved in a number of documentaries about John Cooper Clarke, how did you get involved in those and were you already a fan of his work?
A friend of mine called John Ross made the Cooper Clarke films and he asked me to help out, which I was glad to do. I’ve worked on quite a few docs – my wife Jeanie Finlay makes music docs (Sound It Out, The Great Hip Hop Hoax), so I’ve done a lot of camera work for her. JCC is a very entertaining man with an encyclopedic knowledge of music and film, so he’s great to hang out with.
What type of music are you into and what are your favourite artists at the moment?
I listen to a lot of Sixties garage – the kind of things you find on the Nuggets or Pebbles compilations. I like the rawness of them. I’ve also been listening to a lot of country soul – early 70s pieces from the US South. I like a lot of older country music for the same reason I like the 60s garage – it’s music that’s on the surface quite simple, filled with archetypes, but has a lot of resonance.
What is your ultimate goal in life?
To get to the end.
Finally before we finish, do you have any advice to any aspiring writer/directors/cinematographers etc. out there?
Make work – it’s the only way you find out what you can do. Finish it, show it to an audience. Then move on. And keep going. The main thing you need is perseverance.
Written by Matt Watkins
Published 4/10/2013
‘Gozo’ was a script I wrote for a friend of mine called Leo Scott, who was the editor on ‘Mum & Dad’ and who has since gone on to work with Harmony Korine and Gia Coppola. He wanted to make a film set on Gozo – an island next to Malta, which he knows very well. He asked me to write a script that could be done on a low-budget. I came up with a kind of psychological ghost story involving a young couple battling with guilt, and wrote a couple of drafts. As the project progressed, Leo got a director – Miranda Bowen – on board. She took the project on and did her own draft. Currently the film is still in post-production but hopefully it should be finished before too long. I’m really looking forward to seeing it.
What is you all time favourite horror movie and what is about that film that makes it so good to you?
The Texas Chain-Saw Massacre. It’s like the year zero for modern horror, it’s so influential. I just like the fact that wrongness is in every single frame of the film – I think Tobe Hooper described it as taking place on ‘a cosmically bad day’.
If you could cast any actor in the world, no matter how big, to star in one of your movies who would it be and why?
It’s a cop-out, but it would depend on the part. I’m not sure I’ve got a favourite contemporary actor. If I could have anyone, past or present, I’d take either Robert Mitchum or Cary Grant.
You have also been involved in a number of documentaries about John Cooper Clarke, how did you get involved in those and were you already a fan of his work?
A friend of mine called John Ross made the Cooper Clarke films and he asked me to help out, which I was glad to do. I’ve worked on quite a few docs – my wife Jeanie Finlay makes music docs (Sound It Out, The Great Hip Hop Hoax), so I’ve done a lot of camera work for her. JCC is a very entertaining man with an encyclopedic knowledge of music and film, so he’s great to hang out with.
What type of music are you into and what are your favourite artists at the moment?
I listen to a lot of Sixties garage – the kind of things you find on the Nuggets or Pebbles compilations. I like the rawness of them. I’ve also been listening to a lot of country soul – early 70s pieces from the US South. I like a lot of older country music for the same reason I like the 60s garage – it’s music that’s on the surface quite simple, filled with archetypes, but has a lot of resonance.
What is your ultimate goal in life?
To get to the end.
Finally before we finish, do you have any advice to any aspiring writer/directors/cinematographers etc. out there?
Make work – it’s the only way you find out what you can do. Finish it, show it to an audience. Then move on. And keep going. The main thing you need is perseverance.
Written by Matt Watkins
Published 4/10/2013
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